Life After Ministry

Flourishing In Ministry (featuring Chris Adams)

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Chris Adams, Executive Director of Flourishing in Ministry, takes us deep into the heart of one of the biggest challenges pastors face today—burnout. With pastors feeling pulled in every direction, post-pandemic pressures, political polarization, and toxic church dynamics, how can they stay healthy and truly flourish? Chris shares his own background as a third-generation pastor and how he was inspired to care for those serving in ministry, especially after witnessing his grandfather's ministry burnout. Together, we unpack the emotional weight pastors carry and how Chris's work is helping pastors find real, tangible ways to prevent burnout, restore balance, and thrive, even when their ministries are struggling.
Pull Quotes:
"You can be so right, you're wrong. There’s a lot of that happening today."
"Burnout sneaks up on pastors. By the time they realize it, the damage is done."
"Pastors need to play. A little bit of fun, even 20-30 minutes a week, can make a huge difference."
Key Takeaways:
Burnout sneaks up: Most pastors are unaware they’re burning out until it reaches a critical level. Early warning signs must be recognized.
Self-regulation is essential: Pastors are constantly exposed to toxic behavior and emotional stress. They need skills to process and release those burdens.
Playtime is necessary: Even a small amount of leisure time can rejuvenate mental and physical health and contribute to long-term well-being.
Daily rhythms matter: Pastors should practice simple daily wellness routines, like a 5-minute pause or a 15-minute walk, to maintain resilience.
Flourishing despite hardship: A pastor’s ministry doesn’t need to be thriving for them to personally flourish; redefining success can lead to true fulfillment.
Chapter Markers:
00:00 - Introduction and Chris's Ministry Background02:30 - The "Clergy-Killing" Churches and Why Chris Stayed in Ministry04:50 - The Current Health of Clergy in America07:15 - Navigating Polarization and Flourishing Amidst Conflict10:00 - The Daily Well-being of Pastors12:30 - Importance of Contemplative Practices and Play16:30 - Flourishing in Ministry Even When Ministry Isn’t Flourishing19:40 - The Research Behind Burnout in Ministry22:30 - Indicators of When to Consider Stepping Away from Ministry26:20 - How Flourishing in Ministry is Helping Pastors

The Disciple Dilemma (featuring Dennis Allen)

In Episode 34 of Life After Ministry, Dennis Allen, author of The Disciple Dilemma, shares his journey from a military and corporate background to addressing one of the most significant crises in the church today: the failure of discipleship. Dennis discusses how the church has shifted from making disciples to prioritizing institutional success, leading to widespread disengagement, de-churching, and a broken model of ministry. Drawing on his leadership experience, Dennis explains how churches can refocus on their true mission—making disciples who make disciples.
This episode is crucial for ministry leaders, decision-makers, and anyone grappling with the challenges of church leadership in today’s complex landscape. Dennis offers deep insights into how discipleship can transform churches, reduce pastor burnout, and create lasting impact in the lives of congregations. His message is a wake-up call to rethink the church's mission and rediscover the biblical model of discipleship.
Join us as we dive into practical solutions for reviving discipleship in the church and hear Dennis' heartfelt encouragement to pastors who have transitioned out of ministry, reminding them that their identity is not lost—there is still hope and purpose beyond the pulpit.
Takeaways
The modern church has shifted from making disciples to focusing on institutional growth, leading to disengagement and the rise of the "de-churched."
True discipleship is a life-on-life process, not something that can be achieved through programs or one-size-fits-all approaches.
Pastors are often burdened with unrealistic expectations, leading to burnout and a broken leadership model in many churches.
Churches need to rediscover their biblical mission: making disciples who make disciples, which starts with leadership modeling the way.
Even after leaving vocational ministry, pastors can still fulfill their purpose by walking alongside others in discipleship, finding renewed hope and identity.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome
00:20 - Dennis Allen’s Journey from Military and Corporate to Ministry
02:21 - Early Mentorship and the Biblical Model of Discipleship
04:30 - The Symptoms of the Discipleship Crisis in the Church
05:01 - The Rise of the "Nones," "Dones," and the De-Churched
07:24 - The Impact of COVID on Church Engagement
08:59 - Institutional Problems in the Church and the Burden on Pastors
11:52 - The Biblical Discipleship Model: Bet Sefer, Bet Midrash, Bet Talmud
14:09 - Implementing Real Discipleship in the Modern Church
17:03 - The Burden of the "Sunday Show" and Outsourcing Spiritual Responsibility
18:32 - Similarities Between Broken Churches and Broken Corporations
20:51 - Reclaiming the Church’s True Mission and Identity
23:03 - The Challenge of Discipleship in a Culture of Instant Gratification
24:45 - Overview of The Disciple Dilemma and Its Goals
26:04 - Encouragement for Pastors Transitioning Out of Ministry
27:30 - Closing Remarks and How to Connect with Dennis Allen

This Dream Is Not For You (featuring Wade Joye)

What do you do when God asks you to let go of the dream you’ve built your life around? Wade Joye, former worship leader at Elevation Church, shares his personal story of facing that very question. We talk about the book he wrote: This Dream Is Not For You. In this episode of Life After Ministry, Wade opens up about the moment Pastor Steven Furtick asked him to consider if he was willing to release what he was good at to embrace what God was calling him to be great at. Wade wrestled with letting go of his role as a worship leader—a dream he thought would last a lifetime—but in surrendering it, he discovered a deeper purpose.
This episode speaks directly to those in ministry transition and the decision-makers tasked with helping others move forward. We explore the often painful process of releasing control and trusting God with an unknown future. Wade’s story is an encouragement to anyone navigating the loss of a role, identity, or dream, helping you recognize that God may be writing a greater story, even when the one you’re living seems to be falling apart.
In this raw and honest conversation, Wade shares how embracing new dreams led him to a more fulfilling and joyful life, despite the fear and uncertainty along the way. From his pivotal conversation with Pastor Furtick to finding his calling beyond vocational ministry, Wade emphasizes that true peace and fulfillment often only come after we release our grip on our own plans and trust God with our whole lives. This episode is a must-listen for anyone facing ministry transitions, looking for hope and guidance as they step into the unknown.
Takeaways
Letting go of our own dreams can open the door to God's greater plans for us.
Ministry transitions, while painful, are often part of God's way of refining us and leading us into a new season of purpose.
Trusting the guidance of leaders and God's timing can help us navigate through uncertainty and discover new callings.
Our identity should not be defined by what we do (such as a job or ministry role), but by who we are in Christ.
Calling is more about who we are becoming in Jesus than about a specific role or career path.
Leadership transitions create opportunities for others to step into their God-given roles, making room for new growth in the church or organization.
True peace and fulfillment often come only after we release our grip on our own plans and trust God with our entire lives.
Developing a healthy inner world, focusing on our spiritual and emotional health, is essential for effective leadership and finding joy in new assignments.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Welcome
00:38 - Wade’s Journey and the Story Behind the Book
04:15 - The Turning Point: Pastor Steven Furtick’s Challenge
06:10 - Wrestling with the Dream and Trusting Leadership
08:05 - Transitioning into New Roles and Calling
12:13 - Redefining Calling: Identity vs. Assignment
14:03 - Stepping Away from Elevation Church
17:31 - Finding Joy in Letting Go and Creating Space for Others
20:42 - True Peace and Fulfillment After Letting Go
25:13 - Wade’s Ministry Today: Coaching and The Joyful Leader Program
29:04 - Final Thoughts and Encouragement

The Measure of a Ministry (featuring Gene Getz) - Part 2

What happens when pastors hang on too long or find themselves suddenly cut off from ministry?
In part two of our conversation with Gene Getz on Life After Ministry, we tackle this crucial issue head-on. With over 50 years in ministry and 20 years post-succession, Gene offers practical wisdom on how to prepare for life after ministry, including avoiding bitterness, maintaining humility, and finding a new calling.
He shares how his own transition didn’t end his impact - in fact, it led to creating the world’s first multimedia study Bible.
For those wrestling with disappointment, Gene’s advice is clear: Don’t let anger turn to bitterness, and be ready to serve God in new ways, even when the path forward feels uncertain.
This episode is a must-listen for any pastor navigating the complexities of ministry transitions. Whether you’re nearing retirement or facing an unexpected exit, Gene’s wisdom and experience can guide you through the emotional, spiritual, and practical challenges of stepping away from the pulpit.
His message offers hope: there is a way to transition well, with grace and a lasting impact.
Takeaways
Ministry transitions can be challenging and require wisdom, humility, and proactive thinking.
Succession planning should involve the development of a team of supportive individuals who can provide guidance and accountability.
Pastors who are transitioning out of ministry should consider developing a second ministry career or finding ways to fill the void left by their previous role.
Dealing with disappointment and anger is important for pastors who have left ministry, and seeking help and forgiveness can aid in the healing process.
Having a godly and supportive board is crucial for pastors, and addressing board dynamics is essential for a healthy ministry.
Support and resources are needed for pastors who are transitioning out of ministry to navigate the challenges and uncertainties of their next season.
Chapters
00:00 - Ministry Transitions: Challenges and Pitfalls
02:17 - The Importance of Planning for Life After Ministry
06:07 - Navigating the Challenges of Small Church Transitions
08:49 - Understanding the High Exit Rate of Pastors from Ministry
14:51 - Gene Getz: Ministry After Ministry at 92 Years Old
17:33 - Finding Purpose and Pouring Yourself Out in Life After Ministry
22:04 - Encouragement for Those Living Life After Ministry
26:20 - Providing Support for Outgoing Ministry Leaders
 
Learn more about Pastoral Transitions by clicking here.

The Measure of a Ministry (featuring Gene Getz) - Part 1

What happens when a pastor knows it’s time to pass the baton?
How do you handle transitions with grace, humility, and purpose?
As we kick off this episode and a new season of Life After Ministry, we dive deep into these questions with none other than Gene Getz - a man who pastored for decades and transitioned out in a way that continues to inspire. Gene, now 92, shares his incredible journey of ministry, church planting, and leadership, revealing how he successfully handed over his thriving megachurch to the next generation.
His story is one of humility, foresight, and the importance of building a strong team, emphasizing that true leadership is knowing when and how to let go.
This conversation is a masterclass in succession planning and next steps - offering insights not just for pastors but for anyone leading an organization. Gene’s wisdom shines as he discusses the importance of surrounding yourself with godly people, recognizing when someone else is ready to lead, and the challenges of balancing ego with responsibility.
Whether you’re a pastor facing transition or simply curious about the behind-the-scenes struggles of leadership, this episode offers hope that there is indeed life after ministry, and ministry after ministry.
Takeaways
Ministry can involve layered and textured conversations that leave a lasting impact.
Life After Ministry aims to provide hope and encouragement to those transitioning out of ministry or facing tough seasons.
Gene Getz's journey into ministry was shaped by his upbringing, his experience at Moody Bible Institute, and the influence of a supportive professor.
Getz's approach to ministry involved team leadership and building a support system of godly men and their wives.
Succession planning and passing the baton in ministry require humility, open communication, and a focus on the future of the organization.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Setting the Stage
02:32 - Hope and Encouragement in Life After Ministry
03:06 - Gene Getz's Journey into Ministry
06:20 - Questioning the Validity of the Church
08:18 - Team Leadership and Building a Support System
10:51 - Challenges and Temptations in Ministry
19:55 - Passing the Baton: Succession Planning

8 Things Ministry Leaders Need In Transition (featuring Matt & Marilee Davis)

Summary
In this episode, Matt and Marilee Davis discuss eight things that ministry leaders need in their transition out of ministry. These include consistent community support, affirmation of personal integrity and worth, financial guidance and support, spousal and family support, professional development and coaching opportunities, legal and administrative support, access to solid Christian therapy, and spiritual direction and guidance. They emphasize the importance of these resources in navigating the challenges and growth opportunities that come with transitioning out of ministry.
Takeaways
Consistent community support is crucial for ministry leaders transitioning out of ministry, as it can be disorienting and lonely.
Affirmation of personal integrity and worth is important, especially for men in ministry who often struggle with their identity tied to their job.
Financial guidance and support are necessary, as pastors often don't qualify for unemployment and may not have significant savings.
Spousal and family support and engagement are essential, as the transition affects the entire family and can lead to instability.
Professional development and coaching opportunities help ministry leaders transition into new industries and utilize their skills in different contexts.
Legal and administrative support is needed to navigate contractual and legal matters, especially when NDAs are involved.
Access to solid Christian therapy is beneficial for emotional and spiritual health during the transition.
Spiritual direction and guidance help ministry leaders discern God's leading and navigate the next season of life.
Chapters
00:00 - Eight Things Ministry Leaders Need
08:30 - Financial Guidance and Support
13:14 - Spousal and Family Support
16:34 - Professional Development and Coaching
21:44 - Christian Therapy
25:04 - Spiritual Direction and Guidance

I'm Not Dying In The Pulpit (featuring Dr. Toney Parks)

Summary
In this conversation, Pastor Toney Parks shares his journey from an unlikely candidate to becoming a pastor and his experiences growing up in Birmingham. He discusses the influence of Martin Luther King Jr. and the importance of community in the black church. Pastor Parks reflects on his 32 years of pastoring a church and the decision to retire. He emphasizes the need for pastors to prepare for retirement and shares his own plans for life after ministry.
Takeaways
The black church has played a significant role in the African American community, providing a sense of family and community.
Pastors in the black community often retire later in life or die in the pulpit due to various factors such as financial constraints and fear of the unknown.
Retiring from ministry requires careful planning and preparation, both financially and emotionally.
There is life after ministry, and retired pastors can continue to serve and make a difference in their communities through teaching and mentoring.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Purpose of the Conference01:40 - Unlikely Candidate to Pastor03:07 - Encountering Jesus and Growing Up in Birmingham07:45 - Influence of Martin Luther King Jr.11:31 - Pastoring a Church for 32 Years23:57 - Retiring from Ministry29:39 - Life After Ministry38:33 - Preparing for Retirement46:33 - Closing Remarks

Trusting The Good Shepherd (featuring Jon Morrison)

Summary
Jon Morrison shares his journey from vocational ministry to entrepreneurship. He discusses his call to ministry, the catalyst that brought him out of ministry, and the challenges he faced during the scrambling season. Jon emphasizes the transferable skills that pastors possess and how they can be applied in the marketplace. He shares his own experiences in entrepreneurship and highlights the blessings and opportunities that come with life after ministry. Jon encourages pastors to have hope and embrace the new possibilities that await them.
Takeaways
There is life after vocational ministry, and it can be fulfilling and rewarding.
Pastors possess transferable skills that can be applied in the marketplace.
Adaptability, communication, leadership, and the ability to simplify complex ideas are valuable skills for pastors in the marketplace.
Life after ministry offers opportunities for personal growth, financial stability, and the ability to pursue other passions and interests.
Trusting in God's plan and providence is essential during the transition from ministry to a new career.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Recording Setup00:29 - Background and Call to Ministry03:06 - Catalyst for Leaving Ministry06:09 - Lifelong Commitment to Ministry?08:36 - Scrambling Season and Finding Work09:18 - Discovering Entrepreneurship12:52 - Life After Vocational Ministry16:56 - Transferable Skills from Ministry23:39 - God's Plan and Providence32:54 - Is There Life After Ministry?