Life After Ministry
Many of us have experienced the sting of losing a job. But there’s something uniquely challenging about leaving a position in full-time vocational ministry. Whether you’re stepping down from a church or leaving a kingdom nonprofit, it’s not as simple as just changing jobs. Suddenly, everything changes. You’re left navigating not just a career transition, but also a profound shift in identity, community, and daily routines. It feels like stepping into an unknown, filled with questions like, ”What’s next? How do I redefine myself outside the ministry? How do I maintain my faith amidst this transition?” Welcome to the Life After Ministry Podcast. We’ve been there, navigating the complex journey from vocational ministry to a new chapter in our lives. We’ll explore stories of transformation, hear from those who’ve walked this path before, and provide practical strategies to turn your transition into transformation.
Episodes
Tuesday Feb 13, 2024
Essential Conversations For Your Board (featuring Dr. Dee Dee Mayer)
Tuesday Feb 13, 2024
Tuesday Feb 13, 2024
Summary
Dr. Dee Dee Mayer discusses the importance of board governance within the church and the need for training and support for governing boards. She shares her research on the role of elder boards in supporting wellness in pastoral leadership and the challenges they face. Dr. Mayer emphasizes the importance of selecting board members based on spiritual maturity and creating a culture of accountability and healthy conflict resolution. She provides nine essential conversations for governing boards to have, including defining culture, guiding principles for recruitment, and managing difficult leaders. Dr. Mayer highlights the need for proactive leadership to prevent church hurt and create a space for healing.
Takeaways
Board governance is crucial for supporting wellness in pastoral leadership and preventing leadership failure within the church.
Elder boards often lack training and preparation, leading to a disconnect between the board and the pastors they serve.
Selecting board members based on spiritual maturity and wisdom is essential for effective governance.
Creating a culture of accountability, healthy conflict resolution, and proactive leadership is necessary for preventing church hurt and promoting healing.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Background01:00 - Heartbreak over Leadership Failure02:23 - The Role of Governing Boards03:17 - Lack of Training for Elder Boards04:35 - The Need for a System06:16 - Selecting Board Members Based on Spiritual Maturity07:11 - Balancing Success and Spiritual Qualifications08:21 - Creating Healthy Ways to Navigate Conflict10:19 - Essential Conversations for Governing Boards13:47 - Structuring Roles and Responsibilities15:16 - Maintaining Healthy Leadership16:44 - Taking Care of Pastors and Their Families17:26 - Creating Systems of Accountability18:16 - Navigating Concerns and Allegations19:06 - Managing Difficult Leaders21:39 - Reactivity vs Proactivity in Elder Boards23:08 - The Responsibility of Holding the Church26:43 - Preventing Church Hurt28:35 - Focusing on the Culture and System
Tuesday Feb 06, 2024
The Wounded Pastor (featuring Dr. Matthew Tanner)
Tuesday Feb 06, 2024
Tuesday Feb 06, 2024
Summary
It’s the reason we started the Life After Ministry podcast: the distressing experiences of leadership figures within the ministry who've faced the severe blow of unjust terminations or forced resignations. Join us as we explore this crucial topic with Dr. Matthew Tanner, founder of Wounded Leadership, an organization committed to offering restoration and healing for these traumatized leaders.
Starting from his personal experiences, Dr. Tanner equates the transformative journey of these leaders with the smelting process of metal: uncomfortable yet crucial for ultimately achieving fortitude and resilience. Emphasizing the importance of community support during this healing period, he not only confronts the issue of wounded leaders but strategizes preemptive measures to avoid such incidents.
Unveiling a structured four-step healing plan, Dr. Tanner discusses how such challenging experiences can lead to self-growth, reinforcing the necessity for self-care and constructing a stronger, more humble leader. Drawing from biblical instances, he provides comforting assurance that even revered religious figures have undergone similar struggles.
The conversation underlines the role of the church in supporting pastors during their leaving process and subsequently, its responsibility in providing substantial severance and counseling services. Dr. Tanner provides a comprehensive guide to managing forced resignations and unjustified terminations.
Dr. Tanner also introduces his book "The Wounded Pastor," along with details about an upcoming conference designed to aid pastors in dealing with challenging pastoral transitions. This episode is essential for anyone going through hard times within the ministry or facing their exit from it. Healing is on the horizon.
Takeaways
Unjustified terminations of pastors are a significant problem in evangelical denominations, affecting tens of thousands of pastors each year.
Pastors who have been forced out of ministry often face isolation and struggle to find support networks.
Healing from the wounds of termination involves economic, emotional, spiritual, and leadership development processes.
Churches should handle terminations with generosity and care, providing severance, counseling, and assistance in finding the next step.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Background
01:02 - Personal Experience and Writing the Book
03:14 - Challenges and Questions in Ministry
05:37 - Extent of the Problem
07:05 - Isolation and the Need for Support
08:25 - Diversifying Relationships and Support Systems
09:23 - Balancing Personal and Church Relationships
11:45 - Transitioning from Pastor to Churchgoer
13:48 - Overcoming the Pastoral Mindset
14:46 - The Healing Journey for Wounded Pastors
19:51 - The Process of Termination and Wounding
22:23 - The Importance of Generosity and Care in Termination
26:18 - Promoting Healing through the Book and Conference
30:47 - Collaboration and Support for Wounded Pastors
Monday Jan 29, 2024
God Doesn't Waste Pain (featuring Dillon Fawcett)
Monday Jan 29, 2024
Monday Jan 29, 2024
Summary
In this episode of the "Life After Ministry" podcast, Dillon Fawcett candidly shares his unique journey, transitioning from pastoral ministry and his entry point into the world of mental health counseling. With honesty and vulnerability, Dillon opens up about the ups and downs he experienced, the transitions that challenged him, and the invaluable lessons he's learned. His story is a powerful testament to the truth that life doesn't end after ministry – in fact, it can take on new, meaningful forms. Dillon's insights remind us that our pain and struggles are not in vain - they're instruments used by God to shape and refine us.
Takeaways
Post-Ministry Life: Transitioning out of ministry is challenging, yet it opens the door to new beginnings and avenues of purpose.
Transformative Pain: Our struggles and pain can be the very experiences that catalyze personal growth and transformation.
God's Refinement: God is intimately involved in our lives, using our challenges to refine our hearts and align us with His purpose.
Ministry in Many Forms: Ministry isn't confined to the pulpit – avenues like counseling can be just as impactful in serving and guiding others.
Joy and Trust in God: Finding joy and purpose in life's next chapter hinges on gratitude and a deep trust in God's overarching plan.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Dillon's Background03:01 - Exploring Woodworking and Business Ventures07:24 - Reflections on Pastoral Ministry10:46 - The Emotional Landscape of Transitioning Out of Ministry15:13 - Discovering Life and Purpose After Ministry19:56 - Wilderness Lessons: Growth Amidst Challenges22:44 - Supporting Others Facing Similar Transitions26:06 - Unearthing Joy and Purpose in New Paths29:20 - Continuing the Ministry Journey through Counseling30:35 - Upcoming Projects and Podcast Plans31:08 - Conclusion: Embracing the Journey Ahead
Tuesday Jan 23, 2024
Cultivating Bravery In Transition (featuring BrianJames & Michelle McMahon)
Tuesday Jan 23, 2024
Tuesday Jan 23, 2024
Summary
This conversation explores the experiences of Brian James and Michelle McMahon as they transitioned out of vocational ministry and created safe spaces for pastors and church leaders. They discuss the challenges of being in ministry, the importance of vulnerability and authenticity, and the need for safe and supportive communities.
The conversation also touches on the role of female pastors and the redefinition of church. Overall, the discussion highlights the importance of cultivating trust and creating spaces where pastors can be brave and find healing.
They discuss the importance of connection and how Church Well Co helps pastors and ministers overcome isolation and the concept of bravery and how it can foster safety and support within communities.
Takeaways
Transitions out of vocational ministry can be challenging and painful, but they can also lead to new opportunities for growth and healing.
Creating safe spaces for pastors and church leaders is crucial for their well-being and the health of the church community.
Vulnerability and authenticity are essential in building trust and deepening relationships.
The role of female pastors in the church is important and should be valued and supported.
Church Well Co offers virtual groups and communities for pastors and ministers to overcome isolation.
Isolation is not limited to geographical boundaries, and Church Well Co also supports missionaries around the world.
Engaging bravely with others can create a sense of safety and trust.
Taking small steps of bravery can lead to meaningful connections and support.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Background
01:32 - Entering Ministry
03:07 - Transitions and Changes
04:17 - Personal Transitions Out of Ministry
07:03 - Creating Safe Spaces
10:49 - The Role of Female Pastors
12:19 - Redefining Church
14:27 - Creating Safe Spaces in the Church
20:13 - Life After Vocational Ministry
26:58 - Finding Purpose and Relevance
31:19 - Creating Safe Spaces for Pastors
36:20 - Cultivating Safety and Trust
42:17 - Hope for Those Longing for Authentic Relationships
45:57 - Connecting with Church Well Co
46:16 - Virtual Groups and Isolation
47:40 - Engaging Bravely
Tuesday Jan 16, 2024
Transitions In The African American Church (featuring J. Ricardo Smith)
Tuesday Jan 16, 2024
Tuesday Jan 16, 2024
Summary
In this episode, Matt Davis interviews J. Ricardo Smith at the Classic City Conference in Athens, Georgia. They discuss the purpose and origins of the conference, the state of the black church post-COVID, the challenges of identity and transition in ministry, finding hope and help in difficult seasons, planning for the future of the conference, and the importance of mental health in ministry. J. Ricardo Smith shares his insights and experiences, emphasizing the need for community and support in pastoral leadership.
Takeaways
The Classic City Conference was created to provide resources and solutions for small to mid-sized church pastors.
The COVID-19 pandemic had both positive and negative impacts on the black church, highlighting the need for shared leadership and addressing issues of identity and worth.
Pastors need to recognize their value and worth outside of their role as a senior pastor and be open to transitions and new seasons in ministry.
Finding hope and help in difficult seasons of ministry requires community, support, and access to resources like counseling and therapy.
The Classic City Conference aims to offer ongoing support and resources beyond the annual event, helping pastors navigate the challenges of ministry.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to the Classic City Conference
04:04 - The State of the Black Church
08:23 - Identity and Transition in Ministry
10:12 - Finding Hope and Help in Ministry
12:02 - Planning for the Future of the Conference
14:19 - The Importance of Mental Health in Ministry
17:07 - Connecting with J. Ricardo Smith and Classic City Conference
Wednesday Jan 10, 2024
Refined By The Fire(d) (featuring Kyle & Maria Isabelli)
Wednesday Jan 10, 2024
Wednesday Jan 10, 2024
Summary
Kyle and Maria Isabelli share their experience of being fired from their church ministry and the emotional impact it had on them. They discuss the process of being let go, the loss they felt, and the journey of healing and finding purpose again. Kyle wrote a book titled 'Refined by the Fired' to help others who have gone through similar experiences. They emphasize the importance of clear expectations and communication in ministry and the need for empathy and shepherding in leadership roles. Despite the challenges, they remain committed to ministry and continue to serve in their new roles.
Takeaways
Being fired from a church ministry can be a deeply emotional and challenging experience, resulting in a sense of loss and grief.
Clear expectations and communication are crucial in ministry to avoid misunderstandings and conflicts.
Going through the process of being fired can lead to personal growth, empathy, and a deeper understanding of the needs of staff and ministry workers.
Finding purpose and healing after being fired requires reflection, processing pain, and relying on God's guidance and direction.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Background01:00 - Transition into Ministry03:44 - The Call to Ministry05:40 - Transition Out of Ministry07:49 - The Process of Being Let Go09:49 - Emotional Impact and Loss12:09 - Reflecting on the Experience14:53 - Writing the Book25:29 - Continuing in Ministry30:13 - Book Release and Conclusion
Saturday Dec 30, 2023
What Have We Learned? (Season One Recap)
Saturday Dec 30, 2023
Saturday Dec 30, 2023
Summary
As we wrap up an incredible first season of the "Life After Ministry" podcast, join us, Matt and Marilee Davis, in reflecting on the profound insights and heartwarming stories we've encountered. This journey hasn't just been about sharing stories - it's been a path of personal growth and unexpected joy for us too. Here are some pivotal takeaways that have resonated not just with our listeners, but deeply within our own lives:
Embracing the Darkness in Transitions: One of the most powerful themes this season has been about leaning into the challenging emotions that accompany pastoral transitions. It's in acknowledging and embracing this darkness that many find transformation and growth.
The Wilderness Season: We've talked about this being a necessary phase. It's in these moments of seeming solitude that reliance on God becomes paramount and where profound spiritual growth occurs.
Surrender and Trust: The act of letting go and trusting in God's plan, though scary, is a crucial step in navigating these transitions.
Paying it Forward: Our guests have shared how their experiences have equipped them to serve others in their new ministries, turning their challenges into opportunities for giving back.
Breaking Isolation: Through sharing their stories, our guests have brought light to the often-isolated path that many pastors walk during transitions, offering hope and a sense of community.
Endurance and Support: The journey through pastoral transition is not a sprint but a marathon, requiring endurance, patience, and a strong support system.
Church's Role in Transition: We looked into the responsibility of churches to provide more than just spiritual guidance during these times but also companionship, direction, and practical help.
Honoring Dignity in Transition: Exiting ministry roles can be filled with challenges, but there are compassionate ways to honor people's dignity throughout the process.
Gratitude and Encouragement: Lastly, the importance of expressing gratitude and encouragement to pastors and church leaders cannot be overstated. It's crucial in building a supportive and understanding community.
We've learned so much and have been deeply moved by the stories of resilience and faith. Thank you for joining us on this path. As we look forward to Season Two, let's continue to support and uplift each other, remembering that every transition can lead to a beautiful new beginning.
You can support Pastors in transition by making a donation here.
Saturday Dec 23, 2023
When Heartbreak Redefines Ministry (featuring Clayton Stenson)
Saturday Dec 23, 2023
Saturday Dec 23, 2023
Summary
Clayton Stenson shares his journey of transitioning from ministry to a new career and finding hope and purpose in life after ministry. He discusses his background in ministry, the challenges he faced, and the support he received during a difficult time of grief and loss. Clayton also highlights the transferable skills he gained from his ministry experience and how they have helped him succeed in his current role. He encourages others who are going through similar transitions to seek support and embrace new opportunities.
Takeaways
Transitioning from ministry to a new career can be challenging but also rewarding.
Grief and loss can have a significant impact on one's life and ministry.
Transferable skills gained from ministry, such as leadership, vision casting, and building systems, can be valuable in other professions.
Finding support and community during times of transition is crucial for healing and growth.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:37 Entering Ministry
08:25 Leaving Ministry
12:11 Transitioning to a New Career
18:11 Transferable Skills from Ministry
21:30 Identity and Perspective
23:42 Encouragement and Hope
24:31 Reaching Out for Support
25:23 Conclusion
Clayton Stenson is an innovator in the business coaching space. He is a former Pastor who made the shift to the marketplace 8 years ago. An operations expert, Clayton works with faith-driven construction and trades companies with $5-15 million in revenue that have hit a ceiling. He comes alongside the visionary owner and their leadership team to help them make their vision a reality. Often these visionaries are frustrated, tired, and are feeling discouraged that their business may never be able to run without them. They usually have made some progress toward this goal, but they need some help to get over the hump. Clayton helps them either through coaching or through fractional services.
Clayton has also developed a powerful program to help visionaries and their second-in-commands find unity and leverage their opposite skill sets to develop the company that they dream of. The two of them have an incredible opportunity to work together, but because they are so different, they can have a hard time getting and staying on the same page. Clayton's Unity Rock Program is proven to get the most out of their Visionary/Second-in-Command relationship.
Connect with Clayton at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/theunityguide/