Life After Ministry

Finding Ministry at Home Depot (featuring Steve Cummings)

Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected?
In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God. 
From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve offers hope for anyone learning to trust God in a season they never planned for.
Key Takeaways
Your identity is not determined by your title, income, or position.
Hidden struggles become more dangerous when they remain isolated.
Recovery begins when honesty replaces shame.
God often uses seasons of transition to reveal deeper truths about who we are.
Ministry is not confined to a church building or nonprofit organization.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Friendship, ministry history, and Steve's background
01:30 Seminary, missed opportunities, and unexpected career turns
03:45 Building a career in nonprofit ministry
06:00 Hidden struggles, addiction, and personal collapse
08:00 Rehab, recovery, and discovering the deeper issues
11:00 Losing a ministry position and starting over
12:30 Working at Home Depot and confronting identity
16:00 Launching Bringing Kingdom
21:30 The Father Eclipse and understanding father wounds
28:00 Helping men discover their identity
31:30 Financial uncertainty, faith, and trusting God's provision
40:30 Is there life after ministry?
If you're navigating a leadership transition or difficult season, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Steve's ministry at Bringing Kingdom.

Hope Is Within Reach (featuring Gary Blackard)

Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation.
In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the midst of life's most difficult challenges.
From succession planning and organizational stewardship to addiction recovery and spiritual formation, Gary offers practical wisdom for leaders who want their influence to outlast their tenure.
Key Takeaways
Succession planning is an act of stewardship, not a signal that leadership is ending.
Leaders often avoid succession conversations because of fear, identity, or lack of self-awareness.
Hope is a critical ingredient in personal transformation and lasting change.
Healthy leadership begins with a strong private relationship with God.
Legacy is protected when leaders intentionally prepare others to carry the mission forward.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Introduction and Gary's leadership journey
01:30 Transitioning into Adult & Teen Challenge leadership
04:20 The history and mission of Adult & Teen Challenge
09:40 Ministry leaders, addiction, and the importance of the private altar
12:00 Spiritual disciplines that sustain healthy leadership
15:20 Why hope matters during seasons of change
18:30 Facing the succession elephant
21:30 Why leaders avoid succession planning
27:00 Building a lasting leadership legacy
33:40 The Hope Within Reach podcast and helping families navigate addiction
37:00 Final thoughts and encouragement
Navigating a leadership transition or preparing for succession? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Listen to Hope Within Reach and learn more about Adult & Teen Challenge at Adult & Teen Challenge USA 

No Elevator to Everest (featuring Will Acuff)

Success in ministry can hide struggles that few people ever see. 
While Will Acuff was helping build a nonprofit that would eventually launch thousands of entrepreneurs and transform communities, his family was walking through years of exhaustion, medical challenges, and uncertainty. 
The contrast forced him to confront a difficult question: what happens when the strategies that helped you succeed no longer work?
In this conversation, Will shares the lessons he learned through leadership succession, personal suffering, and the unexpected journey that led him to write No Elevator to Everest. 
For leaders facing transition, burnout, or uncertainty, this episode offers a hopeful vision for finding joy that is not dependent on circumstances.
Key Takeaways
Succession works best when leadership development starts long before the transition.
Healthy transitions require trust, coaching, and ongoing support after the handoff.
High-capacity leaders often struggle to acknowledge their own pain and limitations.
Joy is cultivated through intentional practices, not favorable circumstances.
Faithful leadership requires both knowledge of God and honest knowledge of ourselves.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Welcome and Will's ministry background
03:45 Launching Corner to Corner and helping entrepreneurs escape poverty
07:50 Why the Church should lead community transformation
11:10 Succession planning and transitioning leadership as a founder
19:55 Parenting through complex disabilities and chronic hardship
24:00 Creating a "joy lab" in the middle of suffering
29:00 The story behind No Elevator to Everest
31:00 Advice for burned-out ministry leaders
35:00 Finding joy in the middle of hard
35:40 Resources, book, and final encouragement
If you're navigating a ministry transition or leadership challenge, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Will's work at Corner to Corner and his book at No Elevator to Everest.

A Wealth of Ministry Outside of Ministry (featuring Shawn Gwaltney)

Leaving ministry is rarely a simple decision. 
For many pastors, it comes after years of carrying responsibility, managing expectations, and trying to care for everyone around them while quietly neglecting themselves and their families. 
In this episode, Shawn Gwaltney shares the story of how ministry slowly became unsustainable, what pushed him toward transition, and how he eventually rediscovered purpose through business, mentorship, and helping others find clarity. 
This conversation offers hope for leaders wrestling with burnout, identity loss, and the fear of what comes next after ministry.
Key Takeaways
Ministry burnout often grows slowly through constant emotional pressure and unclear boundaries
Many pastors already possess leadership and relational skills that transfer well into the marketplace
Identity can become deeply tied to the title of “pastor,” making transition emotionally difficult
Healthy leadership in business still requires empathy, discipleship, and genuine care for people
Clarity is often the first step toward healing and rebuilding after ministry transition
Chapter Markers
00:00 – Shawn’s return to church and entry into ministry
03:20 – The pressures that pushed ministry toward burnout
07:20 – Choosing family over vocational ministry
10:20 – Systems pastors wish they had built sooner
11:20 – Transferable leadership skills pastors already have
16:00 – Wrestling with identity after leaving ministry
18:30 – Faith, wealth, and business ownership
23:00 – Helping pastors find clarity after transition
26:00 – Meaning, purpose, and life after success
28:20 – Shawn’s mission to help others grow
If you’re navigating a ministry transition, start a conversation with the team at Ministry Transitions.
And to connect with Shawn Gwaltney and learn more about his mentorship and business resources, visit Shawn Gwaltney.

Mending the Fracturing Church (featuring Dr. Andrew Hale)

The Church is carrying more tension than many leaders know how to navigate. Political polarization, fractured trust, rising anxiety, and unrealistic expectations on pastors are reshaping congregations across the country. 
In this conversation, Dr. Andrew Hale shares why he believes the Church is not collapsing but entering a moment of reformation. 
Together, we explore how ministry leaders can stop treating non-essential issues as ultimate ones, rebuild authentic community, and lead congregations toward healthier relationships rooted in Christ instead of cultural division.
Key Takeaways
Conflict in the Church is not new, but today’s divisions are being amplified by politics and cultural anxiety.
Many churches have elevated non-essential issues above the central mission of Jesus.
Ministry leaders are carrying unrealistic expectations while trust in institutions continues to decline.
Healthy churches create space for diverse perspectives and authentic relationships.
This cultural moment may be less about the collapse of the Church and more about a needed reformation.
Chapter Markers
00:00 — Andrew Hale’s ministry background and love for the Church
03:00 — Why churches are becoming more divided
07:42 — Organizational psychology and understanding conflict
09:16 — Essential vs. non-essential issues in the Church
16:18 — Declining trust in institutions and ministry burnout
19:12 — Have we placed too much pressure on pastors?
23:19 — Why this moment may be reformation, not collapse
27:24 — Political idolatry and the future of the Church
30:57 — Where to find Dr. Andrew Hale and his book
If this conversation resonated with you, we’d encourage you to take the next step. Whether you’re navigating conflict, leadership transition, succession planning, or simply trying to lead your church through a complicated season with wisdom and clarity, the team at Ministry Transitions is here to help. 
You can also learn more from Dr. Andrew Hale’s work on church health, division, and renewal at AndrewRHale.com and explore his book Mending the Fracturing Church wherever books are sold.

The Imperfect CEO (featuring Jim Brown)

Leadership transitions often expose something many leaders spend years trying to hide: the fear that they are not enough for the role they carry. 
Whether it is a pastor navigating succession, a nonprofit executive facing organizational change, or a CEO realizing old leadership methods no longer work, the pressure to appear confident and certain can quietly isolate leaders from the people they serve. 
In this conversation, Jim Brown shares why healthy leadership begins when leaders stop trying to be the hero of the organization and start building collaborative cultures where people feel valued, empowered, and trusted.
Together, we explore the emotional realities underneath leadership transitions, difficult staffing decisions, and organizational change. 
They discuss why so many leaders stay too long, how fear often disguises itself as faithfulness, and why humility and vulnerability are becoming essential leadership qualities in today’s world. 
The conversation offers practical wisdom for ministry leaders who want to navigate transition seasons with greater clarity, courage, and care.
Key Takeaways
Healthy leadership creates space for others to contribute instead of positioning the leader as the hero.
Vulnerability from leaders gives teams permission to be honest, collaborative, and engaged.
Most organizational problems are people and culture problems before they become strategy problems.
Transition conversations are rarely perfect, but avoiding them often causes greater harm.
Fear keeps many leaders in roles long after their season has changed.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Welcome and introducing Jim Brown
01:40 Why leadership perfection is impossible
04:00 How leadership expectations have changed
06:50 Why today’s leaders need humility and flexibility
08:30 Building collaborative cultures that empower people
12:30 Vulnerability, mistakes, and healthier leadership
13:40 The framework behind The Imperfect CEO
19:30 Helping leaders overcome imposter syndrome
20:50 Why transitions are never perfectly executed
24:00 Difficult staffing conversations and leadership courage
26:40 Why some ministry leaders stay too long
28:00 Resources for churches and healthy leadership
Resources & Links
Start a conversation with the Ministry Transitions team: https://ministrytransitions.com
Explore free leadership transition resources: https://ministrytransitions.com/resources
The Imperfect CEO – Jim Brown’s upcoming book releasing May 19:
Order your copy immediately at https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/1637749023
For the best deals, order bulk at https://imperfectceobook.com/
Connect with Jim Brown:
LinkedIn: @authorjimbrown
Instagram: @orghealthteam
Facebook: OrgHealth

How to Hand Off a Church Without Losing It (featuring Wayne Hoag)

Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years. 
In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later in ministry. 
Together, we explore what healthy pastoral transitions require: humility, long-term preparation, deep love for the church, and the willingness to release control before crisis forces the issue.
The conversation also digs into the spiritual side of leadership transition. Wayne shares how unity and love inside the body of Christ become especially important during seasons of change and why churches that avoid difficult conversations often create deeper wounds later.
Key Takeaways
Healthy pastoral succession starts years before the actual transition.
Churches often avoid transition conversations until crisis forces them.
A pastor must gradually release responsibility if the next leader is going to succeed.
Unity in the church is built around Christ, not personalities or preferences.
Ministry purpose does not end when a pastor steps away from the pulpit.
Chapter Markers
00:00 - Wayne’s painful lesson from leaving a church unprepared 
03:34 - Building a long-term succession plan 
05:45 - Identifying and mentoring the next pastor 
07:53 - The temptation to hold onto control 
09:52 - How the church stayed unified during transition 
15:13 - The heart behind The One Another Project 
17:43 - Why churches struggle with unity and love 
19:49 - Why pastoral transitions create vulnerability 
23:48 - What healthy transitions require from leaders 
25:33 - Discovering purpose after pastoral ministry 
30:36 - Why churches cannot afford to ignore succession planning
Start a conversation with the team at Ministry Transitions to learn more about healthy pastoral succession, church leadership transition planning, and life after ministry at ministrytransitions.com. 
You can also connect with Wayne Hoag and explore The One Another Project, his book, blog, and ministry resources at oneanotheronline.org. 
Whether you are preparing proactively for a transition or navigating one right now, both ministries exist to help churches pursue healthy leadership handoffs rooted in unity, wisdom, and care for the body of Christ.

Missing Links in Ministry Successions (featuring John Pearson)

Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that. 
In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment. 
This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape outcomes. It offers a clearer path forward for leaders and boards navigating change.
Key Takeaways
Fear of mistakes can stall leadership more than mistakes themselves
Decision-making and spiritual discernment are not the same skill
Most ministry breakdowns begin with unclear expectations around results
Boards often drift into staff roles when responsibilities aren’t defined
Healthy transitions require humility, clarity, and shared understanding
Chapter Markers
 00:00 — Introduction and John’s leadership background 02:30 — How ministry has changed over time 06:30 — Fear, mistakes, and leadership growth 10:50 — The danger of unclear expectations in leadership 16:50 — Board roles vs. staff roles explained 19:50 — What leaders often get wrong in transitions 28:00 — Why board training is so difficult to scale 32:50 — A defining moment of spiritual discernment 39:00 — Recommended books and final thoughts
If this conversation surfaced something in your own leadership or board dynamics, don’t leave it there.
Start a conversation with us at https://ministrytransitions.com. Whether you’re in the middle of a transition or trying to prepare for one, having the right guide can bring clarity to what feels uncertain.
And if you want to go deeper into the ideas John shared around leadership, governance, and learning from mistakes, you can explore his work at https://managementbuckets.com. His insights are practical, seasoned, and grounded in decades of real ministry experience.
You don’t have to figure this out alone. Start the conversation.